Members of the Media Bizarrely Continue to Request More Spying

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Hamilton Nolan

08/26/13 08:47AM

Filed to: prism

The latest drop in the ceaseless downpour of scandalous NSA stories was the revelation that the agency spied on the U.N. That's a grave breach of trust by any standard, a serious scandal. But some vain media cynics will not stop championing the NSA no matter what it does.

The latest writer to take up the proud journalistic flag of Supporting The All-Powerful and Unaccountable Government Surveillance State is the Wall Street Journal's L. Gordon Crovitz, the paper's former publisher, now a columnist and shitty journalistic thinker. Crovitz's headline is "More Surveillance Please," and, well, you can surmise how it goes from there.

(It goes like this: Edward Snowden is a villain, his leaks did not show that the NSA is doing anything wrong, and in fact that NSA expends too many resources trying to ensure that they don't violate the Fourth Amendment.) Crovitz even calls for an end to the secret FISA court overseeing NSA spying requests— not because a secret court is a star chamber-like travesty against free and open government, but because Crovitz thinks its existence could allow Obama to blame it for any failures to spy on the right people! L. Gordon Crovitz is more concerned by the prospect of Barack Obama escaping political damage after a theoretical terrorist attack than he is by the prospect of an all-seeing national security state engaged in the literal destruction of privacy as a human right. Truly amazing.

Of course, the outlook of media figures like L. Gordon Crovitz who bizarrely support wholesale government spying is predicated on the assumption that the government will not be spying on people like L. Gordon Crovitz. Hold that assumption close to your hearts, media toadies. You may come to regret it.

[WSJ. For an example of a prominent national columnist actually embracing a reasonable position on how the media should view Snowden and Manning, see David Carr's column today. Photo: AP]

The following replies are approved. To see additional replies that are pending approval, click Show Pending. Warning: These may contain graphic material.

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Thewalkingdude Hamilton Nolan 08/26/13 09:34AM

The latest drop in the ceaseless downpour of scandalous NSA stories was the revelation that the agency spied on the U.N. That's a grave breach of trust by any standard, a serious scandal.

If this is a scandal then where is the outcry? Spying on the U.N is not a scandal- it's espionage- which is the NSA's job.

If we can do it than Russia, China, France, Germany and Britain can do it. If fact, Britain already has been caught listening to phone conversations of Kofi Anan.

Say what you will about the NSA but spying is their job.

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Lemaltre Thewalkingdude 08/26/13 10:54AM

Yes, this. I find it hilarious that people continue to be surprised that our spy agency spies on foreigners. The horror! If they weren't spying on the UN, I'd be pissed.

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JohnMcClanesSmirk Thewalkingdude 08/26/13 11:01AM

There's spying and then there's paranoid, wanton, over-the-top violations of trust among allies. The military's job is to go to war, it doesn't mean I want them lobbing cruise missiles into Paris willy nilly. You must understand the issue is degree, not the act of spying per se?

Also, it's feeding a growing anti-american sentiment, which even if you think is hypocritical, still effects our long term national security.

Thewalkingdude JohnMcClanesSmirk 08/26/13 11:53AM

We are not the first country caught spying on the U.N and this is not the most extreme case- for instance, Britain was caught listening in on Kofi Anan's telephone conversations when he was Secretary General.

Other countries that got caught include Israel, Australia, Morocco and Cyprus- now, if small, relatively poor countries Morocco and Cyprus are spying on the U.N then you can easily assume that France, Germany, Russia and China are certainly capable of doing it and if the history of espionage shows anything it's that those who are capable of performing certain acts of espionage are certain to engage in those certain acts of espionage.

Trust among allies- there is no such thing as trust among allies. There are Chinese spies here in the U.S there is also Russian and Mexican and British and Israeli. Everyone spies on everyone- when allies are involved it's usually handled with exchanges and/or favors and then forgotten- it is each countries responsibility to keep it's own secrets.

So- if spying on the U.N is, if not common, expected and the U.S is engaging in the same behavior as it's enemies and allies then you can't describe the actions in this story as "wanton and over-the-top".

Look-

The NSA telecom scandal is an outrage

The Air-America heroin smuggling ring was an outrage

Iran/Contra was an outrage.

This- bugging the U.N? That's espionage and espionage is the NSA's job.

Scandal? Where is the outrage from the EU? Asia? Russia? There is none. Why? Those who live in glass houses...

JohnMcClanesSmirk Thewalkingdude 08/26/13 12:34PM

Well, the UK and Australia, as the NSA stories have shown, are basically lap dogs for the US and Israel has less respect for international law than we do so I'm not sure any of these examples can be used as a moral yardstick.

As for Morocco and Cyprus, those were limited efforts for specific purposes and specific targets, not systematic, dragnet spying and data mining. Read: material issues of national security, not an indiscriminate spying regime.

As for your assumption that France, Germany, Russia, and China spy on the UN, that's just an assertion without evidence.

And OF COURSE countries spy on other countries in everyday context, that's different than turning the only tool for international diplomacy, and one the US has been trusted to host, into an episode of CBS's Big Brother. That offends any pretext of fair play in the one piece of real-estate in the entire world where that perception actually has purchase.

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Stenchofaburner Hamilton Nolan 08/26/13 08:52AM

But what came first in this metaphorical chicken and egg situation, the media that wants more surveillance or the general public that is not only content with the surveillance but wouldn't mind if there was more of it? The story about the UN spying yesterday was a good example: a good number of people not only were all for the spying but they thought it was the natural order of things. Nevermind that it makes the US look bad abroad (and potentially increases animosity towards the country), even people who are liberal in most social aspects see no issue with spying or clandestine intelligence. Media figures like Crovitz seem to be simply reflecting on this rather generalized sentiment.

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cheerful_exgirlfriend Stenchofaburner 08/26/13 09:12AM

I agree in many ways but I think that the media has certainly framed the narrative with regard to Snowden and that has fed into the shrugging "whadda ya gonna do" attitude of my fellow citizens. From the get-go the coverage was all about "who is this Snowden guy?? (psst he's kind of a dork and a dropout) and barely about the meat of PRISM etc. And since we the people expect that we are being watched, when the media barely elaborates on just how much and what that means we collectively shrug and decide it's no big thing since we "knew" all along.

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Stenchofaburner cheerful_exgirlfriend 08/26/13 09:16AM

And with that, the privacy goalposts get moved a bit forward every time. It used to be that people had expectations of complete privacy in some regards of their lives. That was the more or less general sentiment. Nowadays it's been accepted that only "some" privacy should be expected and the State has a right to stretch the definition of "some" as it sees fit. These re-definitions are precisely the way rights are first eroded and eventually taken away.

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flyonthewall Stenchofaburner 08/26/13 09:26AM

Privacy died with Face book.

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cheerful_exgirlfriend Stenchofaburner 08/26/13 09:28AM

The erosion has been happening for quite some time and I would say that between 9/11 and the modern "let's all share everything" age people have been lulled into expecting the spying, be it from an employer curious about your credit score ("they did have me sign a waiver when I applied for the job") or be it about searching lockers in your average American high school. I have watched my fellow citizens shrug away their rights again and again.

You and I agree about this and I'd like to move to an island, you are invited.

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stevethecurse Hamilton Nolan 08/26/13 08:57AM

Read the entire sign left to right. I now wish they would change its name to the US National Central Cyber Security Security Command Agency Service.

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twizzler stevethecurse 08/26/13 09:00AM

I'm trying to decide if it's a cryptogram and all those letters re-arranged spell out WE SEE U PEE FREELY.

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cheerful_exgirlfriend twizzler 08/26/13 09:02AM

I think we can at least spell ASS.

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Hellephant Hamilton Nolan 08/26/13 08:52AM

The Ghost of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ AKA BabySteps Hellephant 08/26/13 08:54AM

Oh that's brilliant! :)